On this episode of the Humans of DevOps, Jason Baum is joined by Tracy Bannon (@TracyBannon), Senior Principal/ Software Architect & DevOps Strategic Advisor at MITRE and DevOps Institute Ambassador. They discuss her journey into IT, being a ‘Dev’ married to an ‘Ops’, advice to the Humans of DevOps, and more!

Tracy is a featured speaker at industry events including ATARC Federal DevSecOps Summits, National Defense Industrial Association (NDIA), Software Engineering Institute (SEI) SATURN, CloudExpo, CA World, CA Gov Summit, DevOps Institute SKILup Days, and PMI Global Congress.

The lightly edited transcript can be found below.

Narrator 00:02
You’re listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills, knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SKIL framework.

Tracy Bannon 00:18
Through a couple of conversations with women who are later in their career who said, don’t sit at the edge of the, you know, the edge of the room, sit at the table, right? Make sure that if you’re there, you’re not taking the minutes you’re there because you’re an engineer because you’re an architect.

Jason Baum 00:33
Hey, everyone, it’s Jason Baum, Director of membership at DevOps Institute. And this is the Humans of DevOps podcast. And I’m so excited today to be chatting with Tracy ban. And Tracy is a DOI Ambassador speaker who’s speaking actually at the upcoming CI/CD SKILup Day, is a Senior Principal at the MITRE Corporation. And she’s a software architect and DevOps strategic advisor focused on solving strategic and complex US government and coalition partner challenges, emphasizing transformation through right-sized architecture. And Tracy blends together x ops to accelerate continuous delivery of value. And she’s just as passionate about mentoring and training as she is about architecting sustainable solution ecosystems. She enjoys Community Knowledge Building with their teams, her clients, and the next generation of the humans of DevOps. Tracy, welcome to the podcast.

Tracy Bannon 01:25
Hey, Jason, thanks for the invite. I’m excited to chat. Absolutely.

Jason Baum 01:29
So before we even get started xx ops, we’re like, how many ops are there.

Tracy Bannon 01:36
Um, I was reading and doing some research last night on some advice that I want to working through. And it was actually on test ops, yet another one, the emphasis is rightly placed, it’s great that we have one side of this that we’re designing and delivering, but if we can’t operate it, and that’s a continuous thing, whether it is testing, whether it’s aI ops, it’s, there’s no stopping the number of ops there are. So we just got rid of it. And x ops, it’s all of the things that allow us to operate and continue. It’s not just a statement that continue to improve. So

Jason Baum 02:12
it’s like the industry’s way of just saying that stuff. Is shortening it down. So much.

Tracy Bannon 02:18
And then data ops, yeah. Ai ops, and then ml ops. Right, right. And then we’re talking about observability. And what does that mean, Sue? X ops just means taking a step back and looking at it’s the same principles as DevOps, right? The same general principles, you know, what’s How do you small size things so that you can get them done observably and rapidly? How do the right folks get the right information? Wherever they are in the loop? Or as part of it? How do you swarm around problems? That part is the same for all of those opsi for all the all the apps See,

Jason Baum 02:53
I’m learning this is I keep saying on this podcast, this is me, who has no in absolutely zero background when it comes to this learning every week. So thank you for teaching me something else. By the end of this, I better be getting like a masters or something like some kind of certification, I think, deserve it. Alright, Tracy, well, welcome to the podcast. And I’m excited to get human with you because you have a really interesting backstory. I’m sure for those of you. For those of you listening who know Tracy, you probably know some of this. But I want to get even further and let’s surprise some people today with how far we could take it about your story. So first, let’s start like, how did you? When did you know that technology or ops was the way you want to go? I think you were pretty young you? Oh, yeah.

Tracy Bannon 03:42
This is a very true story. My brother and I argue about it still, to this day, my older brother. My dad brought home a washing machine box or refrigerator box something and he thought it’d be great for us kids to play with it, we decided that we were going to turn that into a computer, I must have been around three or four because I could not write very much yet other than my name. So we crayon on the outside of it. We drew the mag tapes. Yes, I’m telling you how old I am. We cut some slits in it so that we could put cards in it and get the cards in and out. So it didn’t even draw, write a screen on it. And the argument was, who got to be the brains who got to be inside the computer? And I won. Now I remember being terrified when the questions started coming in. And my brother was actually old enough. He’s in kindergarten, he’s writing questions or at least words. And I’m trying to figure out what to write back. But at any rate, it was that beginning I remember that very vividly. And it was always something that both my brother and I just had a passion towards. It was fun, right? It was just fun. And that’s I think that’s what carried me forward with it. Why would you not just pick a career where you could solve puzzles all day and have fun?

Jason Baum 04:50
So you knew like in preschool what you wanted to do with your life?

Tracy Bannon 04:53
Ah, sure. No, I knew I knew I knew the toys I like to play with. Yeah, that’s what I would say and I just tried to wrap that into a career.

Jason Baum 05:01
Man preschool, I think I was like, Don’t pick your nose and like, it was cool, like, a career was probably like the furthest thing from

Tracy Bannon 05:11
I wasn’t thinking about it as a career, it kept rearing its head. And as there were more computers brought into the schools in different ways, I was always signing up, or I was always asking, Can I be a part of it? Now, I’m going to admit something, I’m going to get some laughs out there from this. But if I look at my high school yearbook, of all the different types of clubs and activities in small school, you know, the kind of school where if you tap your pencil on your leg, they say, Oh, you’re a drummer in the band. So real small school. But I was also one of the officers in our computer club. So I had both my nerd hat on right headline, and my drama head on to the whole bunch of things. But anytime that there’s an opportunity because it was different. And it was always adventurous. So it wasn’t like I was doing math, which to me always seem like you’re learning how people have done things. In the past, it was always something new. I don’t think the word innovation was part of my vocabulary or lexicon. Although I would say that that’s probably part of what interests me with it. Now. It’s just a constant chronic change that goes on.

Narrator 06:11
So

Jason Baum 06:12
yeah, one thing you mentioned to me was that you often felt like you were the only female in the room, or you would notice, I guess that you were only female in the room.

Tracy Bannon 06:23
Yeah, I sort of did and sort of didn’t, I’m being I don’t have to worry, it’s still an appropriate word to say a tomboy, but my mom would tell me that I was a tomboy. I always like to hang around with my brother, older brother and his buddies. But in all of these situations, they never really fazed me. But I was aware that I was often the only female in the room. And that kept going throughout my career. And it’s, and it still has the majority of the teams that I have, even when I’m out there searching for diversity. It’s hard to fill a team that’s really diverse, given just the available talent, we just don’t have, we’re not helping enough folks come through the ranks yet.

Jason Baum 07:01
So yeah, this is a topic that we could probably talk about for a little bit. But I do want to explore that a little bit. Now. Since you brought it up. How do you think that impacted your career trajectory? Like, did it have an impact later on for you?

Tracy Bannon 07:19
There are different times throughout my career where I think it has where it has mattered. Although I’ve also been blessed with a series of mentors, all of which, who are men, interestingly enough, who saw what I was able to bring to the table, they didn’t see, you know, pink hair, they didn’t see whatever my gender identity was, they heard an opinion and they table pounded for me. That has impacted me in terms of how I treat others. I don’t care, you know, if you’re green, red, blue, brown, whatever identification that you have, if you’ve got the opinion and you’re well reasoned, and you’re passionate about it, and want to share that I listen. Um, now I would say that there have been, I can look back over different events in my career, where man it was really a there was probably a little bit of sexism that was going on. I led my first Jad. I was so excited. All these bridge engineers have been flown in, we’re doing a bridge management system, we’re looking at how we can strap tablets to the side of the engineers sister hanging up bridges. And at the end of all of this, I can still remember this guy’s face and his name. He walked up to me, I’ve been drawing pictures, I’m whiteboarding. I’m leading them through this and I’m in my moment. And he walks up to me afterward. And as God is my witness, this guy patted me on the hand. He said You did a good job. I didn’t know what to do with that. And I think that he believed that that was like the sincerest compliment that he could give he was probably old enough to be my dad or my probably even older than that he was he was retired in his 60s are 765. But she’s a Pete, that so those kinds of things gave me a little bit of resolve some people shrink from them. Not so much. My attitude is a little bit different when it comes to that challenge accepted when that happens.

Jason Baum 09:11
So how do you prove them wrong? How do you like how do you take on that challenge? What is your method for getting past that?

Tracy Bannon 09:19
I don’t, I don’t go out and touch something. I’m a female. My name is Tracy Vana. And I’m a technologist. And if you think you have to give me an adjective, if you feel hell-bent, you have to, I get to pick the adjective. So I’ll just pick real or good make me a real technologist, just leave it there. And it’s bringing that excellence to the table. I will say that there were some things that I was lucky enough and truly was happenstance to learn early on through a couple of conversations with more women who are later in their career, who said don’t sit at the edge of you know, the edge of the room, sit at the table, right make sure If you’re there, you’re not taking the minutes, you’re not there to be the, you know, the minute taker, you’re there because you’re an engineer because you’re an architect. So some of those things that said, Don’t be, don’t be timid about who you are helped me and I and I actively mentor all the folks on my team, male, male, female or other along that line.

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Jason Baum 10:56
You just answered like three of my questions in a row, I was gonna say, what do you do to the next year? Well, but for the next generation that’s coming out? I mean, what’s the biggest piece of advice other than sort of just having a seat at the table? I think there takes there’s a lot to getting to that seat at the table because you have to let go of all the things that society puts on you right automatically before you even start. So how do you get past that?

Tracy Bannon 11:21
Oh, so it’s gonna depend on your own appetite for being a change agent, because it does involve being a change agent, part of my journey, right? I jokingly sand of married to ops, there’s truth there. But there was also a point where we switched roles. And I wasn’t used to him being at home with the kids.

Jason Baum 11:43
Sorry, I’m not to cut you off. But you’re referring to your husband, we haven’t really that yet. So I know that will mention that you are married, your husband is working on the opposite side of things. So

Tracy Bannon 11:55
he does, he does. And we can come back to the depths of that story. But my point was being willing to say because it was the right thing for me, it wasn’t necessarily what society was expecting, they weren’t expecting him to my husband to show up, as you know, at the PTA, and to be baking cookies, they expected me to be showing up. And when I didn’t, it was a little hard at first or some bristle, you know, feathers. But that was because I made a decision that it was something that I wanted. But again, it’s your appetite for change, if you’ve got an appetite for change. But you’ve got to be able to you can’t just put it out there that hey, I you know, I want to be a woman technologist, or I want to be a techie. Okay, bring it, if you’re going to do it, you got to apply yourself, you got to be real, you’ve got to learn, you’ve got to produce, you’ve got to have a voice. No one’s handing it to you. And that’s the same for men or women, but women in specific have to make sure that they’re bringing it.

Jason Baum 12:50
Yeah, it’s it’s great advice. And it’s it’s hard to think that in 2021, we still have to look at it that way, you know if of favoritism towards certain sexes, and just and honestly, the first thing that you said to me with the pat on the back, that’s crazy to me, and it surprises me obviously, that I have not lived this that life. So I’m learning. But I just keep thinking about what they tell us in, you know, I have a young daughter. And so parenting is new to me. And so I’m kind of learning all the time. And there’s so many things that I can apply towards, towards it with life. And, you know, I have a young daughter, and just doesn’t even matter, male or female. They say like if you pat on the back and say good job. It’s not even like even for a kid, it’s like you’re not even acknowledging that they’re human. It’s like, what did they do? Talk to them about what they did? And it’s like the same thing, right? I mean, and we, it’s like, you’re not being seen as a human being.

Tracy Bannon 13:51
And I would say that it probably, I love my dad to pieces, my dad is part of that generation as well. And so you know, and I’m the firstborn daughter, not firstborn son, my brother, my old, you know, older brother. So I think that that probably shaped who I was, as well, because I always wanted to from the youngest ages, I always wanted to be the same. I didn’t want there to be a difference. So I think that that played in. But what I heard you say is wonderful for your daughter. I hope that you parent, your daughter the way that my husband has parented my daughter, and that is there is no difference. It is I want you to be applying yourself, right? And your opinion matters always. I love it. When I see my husband get angry when he notices something that isn’t diverse when he sees a lack of diversity. He calls it out before I do sometimes. That’s pretty cool. I think that’s the start of the change. I think it’s going to take this generation I think it’s going to take you parenting to help roll this over. One thing we can’t do. As much as I get tired of hearing about women in technology or diversity of some sort. I can’t stop talking about it. Because as soon as we think that we have it handled, we thought 20 years ago that we had the right numbers going into colleges that were going into the technical trades, right? 25 years ago, comp sci majors are more female than male. that is inverted again. that’s dropped. Why is that dropping? Because we started to not pay attention to it anymore. We haven’t handled Hey, we got It’s okay now, huh? No, we’re gonna have to have that conversation for a while. And then after we think we have we have it solved. We’re gonna have to continue to have a conversation for a bit to make sure that it’s muscle memory. So, yeah, but it’s not just female diversity. It’s, I want my teams to be as diverse as possible, in part, because I don’t have all the answers. Although I would like to say that I do. Having just truly different points of view. One, somebody told me lately, and this kind of shot me to the moon. They said, Well, you know, on my team, I have educational diversity. I’ve got software engineers and systems engineers, I even have somebody who doesn’t have a master’s degree. And I thought, in what world are you on? Right? Talk to me about actual diversity. Talk to me about someone who grew up in a rural town talk to me said somebody who grew up internationally in a major metropolitan area, right? Talk to me about somebody you know, who has an education, one of the smartest people that I know, dropped out of college to work for Netscape and then Microsoft, and he’s given what he called the graduation convocation. He’s actually given the commencement speeches at Harvard. Okay, he didn’t need that degree. So let’s think about diversity on so many different dimensions. It ain’t just about gender, not at all,

Jason Baum 16:43
you know, really well said. And, yeah, I hope that we are the change agent I have like you said, I hope that this generation is I know that I also think that it’s important for my daughter to see me as a as a role model, acting at like, like you said, sharing the responsibilities that were perceived responsibilities of, you know, of women. And, you know, I do, you know, I had someone a boss, actually, I’m not gonna say who he was, but he used to call housework domestics or stuff like that, and like, you know, the domestic work. And it’s, I felt so sick to my stomach when I heard it used that way. But very old school, not not, not necessarily his fault. But, but that’s the differences in generations, I think. And I’m hopeful. I mean, look, we have our very first female president 100 years after women had the right to vote. So I don’t know if that’s progress, or if that’s the first time you know, so. Yep, yep. Anyway,

Tracy Bannon 17:45
oh, my goodness. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting. What’s happened already. It’s interesting, what’s going to be on the horizon, we have to be diligent. They talk about unconscious bias. There’s all of this effort to uncover all of this unconscious bias. And what we found out after hundreds of millions of dollars were spent across all of the different industries is that, well, our unconscious bias isn’t really unconscious, we’re aware of it. But what we need to do is we need to be able to have our own little filter that stops before we say something and says, Hey, I’m being biased. Now. If we can help to get that kind of mentality gone. That’ll probably help. Now, how to do that? I don’t know. And that should

Jason Baum 18:26
be they should make a pill for it. Free money the blue? Yes. You take the pill, okay. You’re no longer biased. Just make it that simple.

Tracy Bannon 18:36
No, I’m a Penn Staters show me like a Notre Dame or a Pitt t-shirt. I just have customer reactions.

Jason Baum 18:45
Well, so let’s go back. You mentioned that your dev married ops. And this is fascinating to me. So tell me a little bit about the Bannons.

Tracy Bannon 18:53
Alright, so gosh, minified stories, met somewhere in junior high middle school, but didn’t really run in the same circles, grade older, went midway through high school, my junior year, his senior year, I get this big crush on this guy. And I’m not just shy of stalking him my entire mind that entire year. He graduates, he decides to ask me out on a date. There’s another good story for that some other time. But we just have this love of technology. We both go off to college, we end up getting married. And this entire time tech is something that we have fun with. We just have fun with it. He started out his career. It was his second job. He was hired by AccuWeather into their operations department. And about six months, eight months later, I made my way into engineering. So I’m Dev’ng, and he’s ops’ng that whole time. And this is before we said DevOps, we just didn’t. That wasn’t a thing. But we didn’t we were still doing systems that were more waterfall in nature. But when somebody would call the house when they would you know, when they needed to get a problem dealt with production issues going on. If he was the guy with the beeper, yes beeper,  if he was the guy with the beeper. After a while, he would turn around and say to me, Hey, didn’t you guys don’t engineering do something with this module? Didn’t you guys roll something out? And it became a call to our house for the two of us, not a call for just my husband. So it became a call for Dev and Ops, and I learned so much I learned about what a job you have to do, when you’re on the operation side, trying to appear inside something that somebody hasn’t created for you to be observable to you. Like, I would have to tell him to go look at this file, go look at this log, where he would ask the question, Why the hell didn’t somebody put this out into a log file? Why didn’t somebody write this somewhere? And so I learned about what it was like to be on that side of things, and sometimes the reactive, high-pressure nature of it. So that helped me so I’ve always thought about, what does it mean to be able to be sustainable by somebody else who may not be part of the development? Now, because we’re married, I would always have the conversation with him, right? That’s what we talked about, right? Other than kids and family stuff, but we would talk I’d be like, Hey, we’re doing the system, we’re doing this kind of stuff. So I always had the benefit of having my ops at my table. And in the same way, even today, he’s still ops, I’m still Dev, that’s still when we go, we go for evening walks, that’s still we’re talking about his situation, like bouncing stuff back and forth off each other. And he’ll call my bluff on things. I’ll run things by him about maybe it’s about chatops. And should I be really putting build messages into a Slack channel for people? And you know, and he’s talking about, you know, why that might work and why it might be noise. So it’s just fun, but it really is Dev married ops.

Jason Baum 21:53
So you’re I left the aquarium and you’re running a sim on your husband, essentially, pretty much.

Tracy Bannon 21:59
I will tell you that my kids have more than once said, Can you guys talk about anything else? My son, I imagine that just to try and derail us, he would just you know, do you know that the Son is 100 million miles away? What does that have to do with anything? He was just trying to do real? So just talking about anything else? Anything else? Anything else?

Jason Baum 22:18
So was it hard for you to work with your husband?

Tracy Bannon 22:21
No, no, I, but I think that he had, I am so passionate about things. And he’s a really laid-back guy, that I know that there are times where it’s probably harder for him than for me. But it was only a couple years of our career. And then we’ve been indifferent firms the entire time since then. So that was probably two or three years together. And it was great. It was it was wonderful. Um, and then we’ve just grown did very differently.

Jason Baum 22:47
Have you ever taken your like the Bannons? As like a consulting business, like, call us for your DevOps, literal, you were like DevOps before? It was cool. You were you were DevOps. What? Like, did you did you coined the term?

Tracy Bannon
No, no, I didn’t. But that would be cool to have. Well, back in the day, to say you did,

Tracy Bannon 23:08
there was a term DevOps way, way, way back, which is actually had to do with your OPCON. So pushing messages out to monitor so the operations folks could see them. So you had DevOps monitors, but it has a different one for the first time I ever heard DevOps. I’m like, why are we talking about? Yeah, the operations team and you know, their war room? Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. We, um, we’ve we’ve done consulting throughout the years, but more for family and friends and small businesses. We’ve never really talked about it, I’m truly branching off and doing that. But I’m full-time. And my husband is part-time now. He’s dropped to halftime, which works for operations. And he also has another business that has nothing to do with technology.

Jason Baum 23:54
You guys are pretty busy. We do

Tracy Bannon 23:57
we do things

Jason Baum 23:58
we do. So was it hard, like with your like friends in the in the development field that you’re like, husband’s in the ops and you’re like talking to ops all the time? Well, they

Tracy Bannon 24:08
saw me as fraternizing. Yeah. So yeah. And there were times where it became a reputation, but it actually has benefited me that people would say, you know, kind of the eye roll here she goes about ops again. Well, now that’s that’s expected. Early on, it was almost that she’s sympathizing too much with the wrong group. All right. Why are you worried about that? We got to be worried about you know, building this new thing faster. We’ve got to be worried about you know, adding on to it when we hold on. So I think it it was a detractor at first I think now it’s it’s a good thing. It really keeps me sharp.

Jason Baum 24:46
So let’s talk about community said it in your bio that I had read. It was surprised I read the bio. There was the mention of community and knowledge buildings really important to you. So what is about community and for anyone who listening obviously communities passion mine can be building what is it about community that piques your interest that is so important to.

Tracy Bannon 25:11
So I can go out and I can find so much written information, I can find videos, I can find things that give me the raw information. But when I connect with Jason, and we talk about this issue that you faced, and you tell me how you addressed it, I feel better equipped to figure out how I’m going to address it, I might not do the same thing that you did. But if I understand your thought process, and then I turn around, and I talked to Jaida, or I talked to Joe or I talk to Mary and get their thoughts on how they dealt with that, what’s their exemplar. That’s how it gets real. And you get to real solutions. Right now, everybody is so barraged with information coming at them, but it’s not curated. Even if it is curated, it’s still a bit anonymous. If I have community, I can actually solve a problem, you can get to understand me as well. So I’m all about making sure that I’ve got that human connection so that I can do a better job of that. Can I actually enjoy it? Because I learned so much. You said this earlier, I learned so much from other people. Right, and just having the conversation.

Jason Baum 26:15
Yeah, it’s a I think we’ve all had to have a little bit of that, because it’s been so isolating, you know, the pandemic was very isolating, and we all kind of sought it out through zoom or teams or whatever you’re using these days. But does anyone use Nevermind, I was gonna say, what was that? I can’t remember the name of the thing anymore. That original-like video, chatting. WebEx, WebEx. Thank you.

Tracy Bannon 26:47
Yeah, I’m still out there. I

Jason Baum 26:49
had it, was it? Yeah. Okay, thank you. Gosh, I’m like, There’s FaceTime. There’s I’m going through all the ones that we use anyway, in person, you can never really replace that. And I can’t wait for that to come back.

Tracy Bannon 27:00
This matters. So as much as I’ve had remote teams since 2007 2008. So folks, there’s some folks that I never physically met until two or three years in. But we had this amazing connection relationship because right now, Jason is just you and me. And we’re having a conversation. Somebody’s recording it. Yeah, sure. But it’s you and I having a chat. That’s part of keeping it real. That’s part of the conversations that we have also have to have, everything should not be 5060 100 people listening, and then just the questions scrolling up on the prompter on the side, I need to be able to have one for two for five people in a room having the conversation that we have to put more emphasis on that personalization. And that part of community building. That’s really important to me,

Jason Baum 27:46
really collaboration, right? I mean, it’s the collaboration. Yeah, and there’s a quote and you and I spoke before we spoke last week on a completely different topic, but we both shared that we like I guess it’s ceiling quotes. Oddly enough all things to connect on. Yeah, cuz I have the quote that I always go to the JFK quote, a rising tide lifts all boats. And then you came back with another sailing quote.

Tracy Bannon 28:14
Yes. A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor. See? There

Jason Baum 28:18
you go. So no scale. Did you hike ever in the like to Everest? No, I’m just kidding. We, we found this weird thing where we can link one podcast to another.

Tracy Bannon 28:30
Not Everest. I did. hiked the Inca Trail. I’ve been on glaciers on three continents so far. Whoa. So I do. I do like adventure, right? If you paint the picture of Bannon of this Bannonr. I like adventure. So yeah.

Jason Baum 28:48
Yeah, that’s what we do towards the end of this podcast, we start getting a little lighter. So what’s one thing about you that nobody knows that you’ve never shared?

Tracy Bannon 28:56
That nobody knows? And I’m gonna put it out there in the Yes. Yes. That nobody knows. Well, some of these gotta know it.

Jason Baum 29:02
Well, someone might know. But maybe your colleagues don’t know. Mm-hmm. We said you, you were on. You hiked on three different glaciers. Yeah.

Tracy Bannon 29:12
So I mean, so I’m, I would say that maybe not everybody knows that. I’m an adventure junkie. And this scanner tying it back to my husband. He is my sanity check. He’s the one who says, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that is too dangerous. So I have yielded. I’ve given him the right. And he rarely does this to say, you know that one is too dangerous. But whenever I come up with an idea, I, I was the kid in the back of a car when your dad would say, oh, I should have filled up. We’re running a little low on gas. I was hoping that we’d run out of gas so that we could have ventured so I am I am truly an adventure junkie.

Jason Baum 29:50
That’s, that’s so similar to my dad we used to we would get lost on purpose. We used to love getting lost because he said, Well, that’s the only way that you can find new places. Yeah, Recorded loved

Tracy Bannon 30:00
I would love to meet your dad

Jason Baum 30:05
what’s the last song you listened to? on your on your device?

Tracy Bannon 30:09
um the the the I will have to give you the version that I would cake. So I think that flow writer who does cake, okay, yeah there are a couple other ones that are like by tones and I that I’ve been top of mind lately that I’ve been dancing and singing around about so yeah,

Jason Baum 30:31
I decided that’s gonna be my new way of asking because rather than what music are you listening to right now? I just want to know exactly what was the last thing that you?

Tracy Bannon 30:38
It was the cake song and I was trying to annoy my husband and get them out of bed.

Jason Baum 30:42
There you go. There you go. Mine was little wing, Eric Clapton. Because I was listening to crossroads. Cool.

Narrator 30:52
There you go.

Jason Baum 30:52
Well, thank you so much, Tracy, for being on this episode of the humans of DevOps podcast, it was a lot of fun having you on, it’s just a hoot.

Tracy Bannon 31:01
I would love to get together and talk again, even if it isn’t on a podcast, let’s make sure we connect

Jason Baum 31:06
with geeks talk every week. It’s totally fine. Whatever you want to just call. Awesome. Tracy is gonna be speaking at the upcoming CI/CD SKILup Day. And her session is titled DevOps missing link data. I get that all right, you did,

Tracy Bannon 31:28
you did. Talk about the fact that nobody thinks we’re shifting everything left except for test data and test data management. We’re just leaving that leaving, and we’re still having some problems that we don’t need to have. So

Jason Baum 31:43
there you go. So don’t miss it. In the future, I want to start getting questions from you our valued listeners, and we will read them on the podcast. Maybe it will be for the guest or maybe it will just be for me or maybe it’ll be for someone else. Maybe we’ll bring someone else to answer questions. I have no idea. We’ll figure it out as we go. So write us some questions because we want to read them. And thank you so much for listening to this episode. I’m going to end this podcast the same as I always do, encouraging you to become a premium member of DevOps Institute to get access to even more great resources just like this one and belong to a community. Until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human. Live long and prosper. Ciao.

Narrator 32:26
Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps podcast. Don’t forget to join our global community to get access to even more great resources like this. Until next time, remember, you are part of something bigger than yourself. You be
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