DevOps Institute

[EP45] A Good DevOps Accident with Leonardo Murillo

Humans of DevOps

August 2, 2021

On this episode of the Humans of DevOps, Jason Baum is joined by Leonardo Murillo (@murillodigital), Cloud Native Technologies Expert, DevOps Institute Ambassador, Co-Chair GitOps Working Group. They discuss his journey into IT, hardships as a means to progress, advice to the Humans of DevOps, and more!

His passion for technology began at 13 years old. He founded the second BBS in Costa Rica, at 15 he got his first job as an assistant network administrator for the first commercial ISP in the country, and at 20 he became IT Director for one of the first colocation facilities in the region.

A cloud enthusiast since I first started using AWS over 10 years ago. Focused on Kubernetes as a pivotal technology in cloud native architecture. Public speaker, coach and blogger.

Read about leadership, business and cloud native technologies from Leo at www.murillodigital.com.

The lightly edited transcript can be found below.

Narrator 00:02
You’re listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills, knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SKIL framework.

Leonardo Murillo 00:17
Because what’s interesting is we talk about the people that have been pivotal in my life. Maybe it’s a two-way street, maybe you don’t know either, when you are being pivotal in somebody else’s life, right, which is something really interesting.

Jason Baum 00:33
Hey, everyone, it’s Jason Baum, Director of membership at DevOps Institute. And this is the Humans of DevOps podcast. Thanks so much for joining us again. And I’m so excited today to be chatting with Leonardo Mario. Leonardo is the principal partner solutions architect at weave works and founder of cloud native architects, as well as being the former CTO at Quinix. He’s also a DevOps Institute ambassador and the Costa Rica chapter, President CNCF, speaker and community organizer, Leo brings wide-ranging industry perspective with over 20 years of experience building technology, and leading teams all the way from startups to Fortune five hundreds. Well, yo, welcome to the podcast.

Leonardo Murillo 01:15
Awesome. Thank you for inviting me, Jason, this is great. It’s really fun and an honor to be here. Appreciate it.

Jason Baum 01:20
Absolutely. So, you know, we gave you a bit of a warning that we’re going to get human on today’s podcast. So should we just jump right in?

Leonardo Murillo 01:27
Let’s jump right in. That’s what I’m expecting. So awesome. Awesome. Roll up your sleeves,

Jason Baum 01:31
you’re wearing short sleeves. That’ll be easy. Let’s, let’s get right to it. So I know that you know, with your background, clearly, you’ve been done quite a bit in your career. But how did it all begin? You know, what did you know, at an early age that you want to get in technology? You know, how did you start?

Leonardo Murillo 01:55
Well, I, I, I guess I didn’t know I wanted to get into technology. It just happened. But it was this overwhelming absorption. That happened at an earlier age. And what I mean by that is it wasn’t a choice. It wasn’t a choice, it wasn’t a conscious decision. So it all started when I was 13 years old. And I didn’t think at that time, oh, this is going to be my life. And I’m going to dedicate myself to technology and I’m going to have a good job. 20 years down the road, it wasn’t like that, you know, it was just completely impossible to obtain curiosity, the moment that I got my first computer and, and it served more than just a, a kind of technology role. It became the window to a world it became a means to socialize because I wasn’t really social in high school. And it was kind of the beginning of the rest of my life without me really knowing about it. You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t my strategy. It was a very good accident.

Jason Baum 03:14
Like that a very good accident is a is an interesting way to describe it. So you were 13 when you started the second BBs network in Costa Rica. And that led to possible I guess, job possibilities, right?

Leonardo Murillo 03:29
That’s right. And so for anybody that doesn’t know, like BBs are systems that predated the internet and basically dialed up to get on on them. And after school, I had my computer and I had a modem on it. So I I don’t even remember how I realized there was this thing called BDS like there’s a lot of gaps and kind of like my exploration that I really didn’t know exactly how I learned some things. They just, I don’t know how I found them. But I found them. And I ran the BBs. This is pre-internet. And at that time, there was if you wanted to get on the internet, you have there was a single place that you could actually log in, and that was in the biggest college in the country. They were the only ones that had internet at the time. And that was changing. Somebody came in from California actually. And he wanted to start the first commercial ISP in Costa Rica. So long story short, I was running my BBs and somebody connected to the BBS one afternoon and said, You know what, we need somebody that can do what you did, because we’re starting the first commercial ISP in the country. And I asked my mom where to take the bus and I don’t know if she was very supportive or very irresponsible, but she let me go. And I went, I went over and I was hired as an assistant to the network administrator. And that’s kind of how my, my professional career got started. And that 13 at 13, and I started to make money. And that was life-changing. Like that was the point in time where I said, You know what, now I can, I can do whatever I want, I have money. And what’s funny is my family actually, like, I come from a relatively modest family, like, I never had any money. And it took a lot of effort for my grandfather because I didn’t live with my dad for my grandfather to, to buy me that computer. But it really changed my life. And it actually brought kind of like financial benefits, you know, like, financial freedom to me and my family eventually. So yeah, it was, it was kind of a little revolution in my life.

Jason Baum 05:48
You know, I’m always inspired by hearing the stories because we’re relatively the same age. And when I was 13. And all this was going on in your life, I was making prank calls through the modem. I realized how I’ve now wasted everything. It is it’s inspiring. It’s It’s amazing that you were doing all that back then.

Leonardo Murillo 06:14
And it’s funny, because, you know, I always talk to people as so here in Costa Rica, we have no military, and we live. So let me tell you some things about hardship in life. I didn’t enjoy high school, I was, really badly bullied in high school. And I think all that difficulty were drivers. For me to kind of find this thing that changed my life. And the reason I’m talking about military is because if we think about Costa Rica and other countries, and hardship as a, as a means to progress, I was talking the other day about the fact that for example, we we’ve never really had any wars here. We have never gone through military training. And I actually find that there’s there is value. And I’m not saying I want military and I want any wars just for the record, right. But what I’m saying is that through those experiences, if some cultures, there has been a lot of progress made, and there are components that promote growth in people, and we were talking about, for instance, even weather right here in Costa Rica, we have 12 hours of sunlight they can like throughout the year, we have like 22 degrees Celsius, which I don’t know what in Fahrenheit, like maybe 80 or something. Yeah, I think, oh, all year long.

Jason Baum 07:45
Are you doing this to rub it in?

Leonardo Murillo 07:48
Yeah, beautiful sunshine, like it’s a great place to be. Where are you Jason? No, just kidding. But point being. That means for instance, we never had to solve the architectural problems that some cultures have to solve whenever they build windows to keep the freezing cold out. Point being, I think there was a component of hardship at my 13 years old, that drove me in this direction, right. And I think it’s kind of like valuable to point out how, what would have been perceived, like we were playing around making prank calls when you were 14, I was probably in a whole lot more distress, I was probably not happy and had not had fun. Until I found this thing that really fulfilled me. Right? And, and it ended up being good. So even if there is hardship, it’s effectively focused and effectively driven or by chance, somehow exposed exposes you to something that’s meaningful. It’s gonna end up alright.

Jason Baum 09:09
Yeah, I was talking about I think, for me, you know, that thing was music. You know, my parents were divorced when I was five. So I never like, you know, it was pretty tough. I didn’t, I wouldn’t say that. I went through any, you know, any hardship, but I would say that that was tough. And, you know, I think my escape is always going towards music or going towards something like that, or sports, you know, was another outlet. But, you know, for those who I’m talking to on the podcast, obviously, there was not everyone but many people seem to have found that release in learning and discovery. I kind of wish I went that direction would have been much more productive for me now. But yeah, I guess it’s whatever your interest levels are. Did you have anyone that you kind of could relate to anyone who kind of gave you advice early on in your career that helped to path and shape that path for you, as you continued on?

Leonardo Murillo 10:07
Yeah. And you know, it’s funny, because when you look like, you know, like what they say like, hence it is 2020, right. And if you look back, I see over the course of my life, and over the course of my career, that just as they were, like pivotal decisions that I made, without real awareness of the fact that I was making a choice that would define the rest of my life to some degree, there were people that also served that role. So when I, when I saw I worked as a network administrator in this ISP for a while there was a client, and it’s people that you remember by name, his name was John manners. I would be surprised if he ever hears this, but it really does. John, if you’re

Jason Baum 10:55
listening.

Leonardo Murillo 10:57
You changed my life, man. John matters he was. So at that time. This was the first ISP, the country didn’t really have commercial viability like they’re what they’re wearing. Like we’re tiny little country, we’re 7 million people, I think, overall, altogether, the country. There wasn’t like millions of people banging on anybody’s door to get on the internet. Right. But the reason that this expat that came to Costa Rica wanted to start this business was that there was this huge expat community in Costa Rica of mostly senior citizens that came over to Costa Rica to retire. And they heard about this thing, the internet and they wanted to get in, and they had money and they had time. More money on time than any actual Costa Rican had at that point in time. So this person, John manners, he told me that I could be making a whole lot more money if I worked with the actual community of expats that were living here, as opposed to like, assisting assistant network administrator at the ISP, which is funny, because this is kind of like where my career started. And we’re in a DevOps show, right? So DevOps is about the development and operations and kind of like the profile is one that has kind of like a relative’s wide-ranging surface of experience, right. And at that point in time, I think that type of situation began to occur. Because I went from a system network administrator to started working with expats helping them kind of like support their computers, right? Like, if I think about now, like, it’s, I would have never imagined that it was something relevant. But it it exposed me to a different type of, of reality right now. And it wasn’t in their homes. So I came from this kind of like a small home, you know, like, very modest into the condos that this, foreigners were able to purchase that were kind of way beyond anything that I had ever seen, like, culture shock, it was kind of like, what is this life? And what is this? What is this right, so different to anything that I’ve experienced before. And I started working with them. And that actually did provide me more money. This guy, John, he invested in the stock market. And that’s kind of why he came down here. He was really poorly impacted by Lehman Brothers when the whole housing bust and whatnot. But he came down Aaron, and he was just living off its investments. So I learned about the stock market, like a 15-year-old kid from Costa Rica learning about all these things. I didn’t speak English then really well, I learned English because I worked with them. So it opened up the world to me that I guarantee you had so people had that person not connected to BBs, and offered me the job without knowing I was a 13-year-old kid had John matters not offered this idea of kind of opening up the PC club the recall of all these older American citizens in the country, my life would be different and there’s this cadence that I can see over time there’s always somebody that without realizing open up a door and define the path. So for anybody that’s out there listening to this, I’m very grateful for those people in my life, you know, I It’s funny because sometimes most of the time you never get to say thanks right because you realize, like, way into the future I don’t even know for life. So yeah, those are the people there’s a bunch of them.

Jason Baum 14:58
And now and you know you don’t really realize the impact that they’re having until much later. Is there? Is there any advice that you would give to someone who might be 13? Right now and playing with the BB at? Well, no. They’re a little behind. No. Is there? What would you say to someone who’s maybe now, you know, there is a DevOps fields? I know, there wasn’t when you were coming up, but you know, who might be interested in getting into DevOps that you would say to them? Like, what should they do for their path? What things should they lookout? For? Where did you have any pitfalls along the way? Couldn’t have all been easy, you know, once you realize that you had this passion for something?

Leonardo Murillo 15:41
I think I think what I would what I would advise, and it might not be DevOps, it’s fine. You’re so for those that are looking. Never stopped, like, let curiosity be your guide. Right? Let curiosity be your driver. And, and find that thing for which your insect insatiable. So that’s kind of what I would say to the searcher. And what I would say to everybody else, even the searcher, because what’s interesting is we talk about the people that have been pivotal in my life. Maybe it’s kind of a two-way street, maybe you don’t know, either, when you are being pivotal in somebody else’s life. Right, which is something really interesting. And I think if you become aware of the fact, like right now, maybe I am being pivotal in somebody’s life, because what I just said, right? If if you realize that you can that you are that we all are that agent of change. It’s it’s a matter of kind of always serving others, right, like opening up opportunities, giving ideas kind of sharing yourself. And if everybody goes by those two tenets, right? Seek endlessly for until you find it for like this insatiable source of curiosity, and give yourself to others because you might be their pivotal moment, I think you got a pretty solid guarantee that good stuffs gonna happen when you say

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Jason Baum 18:11
That was, yeah, I think that was great. I hope I hope people listen to that. Because there are so many pitfalls in life, there are so many roadblocks or so many people or things potentially standing in your way. Sometimes it’s kind of trust your gut, right? It’s it’s don’t it’s like what you teach your kids, it’s like, you know, just because the blocks fell down doesn’t mean it’s over, you know, you just start again and build them back up. Right? It’s, it’s as simple as some of those early early exercises. It’s not that simple. But, you know, I but the concept is

Leonardo Murillo 18:48
not but it is. And a matter of fact, I think that’s another very, very valuable piece of advice that you just kind of shared there. Embrace the I don’t even want to call it a failure, because I don’t think it’s a failure. It’s just kind of like a stepping stone to the process. Right. But embrace. There’s the saying, like, trust the process, right? Don’t Don’t fall. And that’s interesting because we were talking about how this was not a conscious choice of mine, and likely not a conscious choice. A lot of the people that are that have been for 20 plus years in the industry, in an industry that didn’t exist when they started, right. I wasn’t looking for the outcome. I wasn’t looking forward the eventual return on my investment. Right. I was just embracing the moment and the instant and the passion and curiosity that this moment provided right? And even in failures, there’s this I remember I had one it was a three to six computer how it was started. And I had a 50-megabyte hard drive. And you know, what I did to begin with, I started it was windows 3.1, I think, which was kind of top of the line. And I started actually trying command by command. All the commands that I found the computer one by one, and there was one of them. That was, if I recall correctly, called Disk dupe. If that’s the name, now, what was the name, there was a command that allowed to compress your hard drive. I have no idea what compression was, I was I had no idea what anything was. I just ran the command and my 50-megabyte hard drive became like an 80-megabyte hard drive. And I’m like, This is magic, like, this is the best thing that I’ve ever done in my life. But as with everything that’s compressed, the computer became Slow as hell and eventually kind of like, just broke down. That experience the debugging the solving of that problem, when I knew I had no choice like I couldn’t, I couldn’t, I didn’t have anybody around me, that could help me. Because nobody knew anything. At the time, my grandfather probably had spent all his savings into getting you that computer, right? So I had to figure it out. And that experience, I think, just galvanized how passionate about, about how passionate I was about characters that I’ve found, and the pleasure in problem-solving, which I think is a huge component of, of kind of finding that passion, right? When when the struggle becomes enjoyable. I think that’s kind of another, I think, probably a piece of advice is you got to watch for those signs, right? To know you found your path, right? Do you want to enjoy the struggle you want to you want to be completely, like, you cannot satisfy yourself with exploration, you got to keep going?

Jason Baum 22:16
Yeah, it’s kind of like what drives entrepreneurs. When when the struggle becomes what you say when the struggle becomes enjoyable. I love that, that’s like, that’s a great quote, go with that, like that’s for put them on T shirt. No, that’s like, that is such a good way to sum it up. Because I find that with a lot of entrepreneurs and talking to them. There’s this, like, the sweat equity that you put into something, especially that you’re truly passionate about. And you find that with entrepreneurs who work like the majority of their time is spent working or putting something, you know, into, into what they’re trying to build. And sometimes you question, you know, why am I doing it? Like that’s a that’s an easy place to go for a lot of people who are putting so much time and effort into something and when things get screwed up, you know, because eventually, we’re all going to fail. And failure. Like you said it shouldn’t necessarily be looked at as a bad thing. I think a lot of entrepreneurs will tell you that failure is a good thing. As long as you know, you keep correcting and problem-solving and get to that next place. And that’s how you become successful as you have to learn from all your failures. I’m assuming define that in DevOps?

Leonardo Murillo 23:34
Definitely. And I think see the thing about failure and overcoming resistance to the temporary state of displeasure that arises almost, I guess, naturally out of failure because it’s not even if you think about fear, for example, or or pain. A fearless person is not one that doesn’t experience fear. We all experience for us is coming to choices made in response to that. Emotion, right. Same thing with pain, same thing with discomfort. And the reason I pointed that out is that DevOps as as it has evolved into its principles and current way of doing things. Well, this is the podcast all about it’s about humans, right? It is about how humans interact, how the patterns of behavior that are cemented in onto people need to change and the fear and uncertainty that change produces. And for those that are promoting that change how How do you become the source of confidence? How, and kind of when we’re talking about pivotal people, right? How do you become that pivotal component in, in an organization that is going through this change? Right. So I think there’s a lot of commonality to calling the adoption of DevOps, because it’s also an exploration matter of fact, like, when this whole thing started, the DevOps has changed. And it’s in the level of understanding the level of adoption. And, and the meaning of it has evolved over the years at a grammatical dramatic rate of change, right? Of not changing evolution of cementing, right solidifying, fulfilling. So there is there is definitely a component of of class, like, the resonates with all this personal search, and this kind of personal struggles with that which an organization is a system experience, as they’re going through this process? Does that make sense? It does,

Jason Baum 26:12
yeah, and there’s a lot of choice, we’ve been talking a lot about choice. And kind of how you kind of found DevOps by accident. And you had shared with me earlier, you know, when when we were talking, that you have children? And sometimes you wonder about choice, right? It’s as a parent, and I have a three-and-a-half-year-old. You know, I, I think about that, too, you always think about your kids future, right? And the choices that they’re going to make, and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, about that. And, you know, how do you think that that with your DevOps mindset and your, your background? How do you see yourself kind of applying that to, to your children?

Leonardo Murillo 27:05
I tell you, Jason, is that I wish I understood children and family.

Jason Baum 27:11
Doesn’t,

Leonardo Murillo 27:12
that I understand technology? I don’t, I don’t like it’s hard. Like, it’s, I was talking to a friend of mine today. Because I have three kids. And, for example, like my two older kids are from my first marriage, my baby is from my second marriage. And the two older kids are just fed up with a baby in the house period. You know what I’m saying? That the, they can leave their toys around, and everybody’s saying don’t leave their toys around, cuz they’re gonna baby’s gonna joke and be quiet because the baby’s sleeping, and it’s just better. And, and I was talking to a friend of mine, and he’s like, Yeah, parenting is so tough. And parenting is tough and joking that I don’t know what happens next. I don’t know what happens if there’s an afterlife is there’s rebirth. I don’t know what the hell is gonna happen. But if there is rebirth, it would leave myself like a little note saying, You know what, kids great, boundless love. Awesome. You did it once. Try something different. Yes, tough, man. super tough. But hardship, right, and how in my grown-up mind and kind of conscious awareness, I realize, oh, hardship is good. It makes you grow. And yet, with children, you’re, as a parent, you’re always trying to kind of reduce or at least manage and control the level of hardship that are exposed. So how do you balance that? And how do you promote them finding that which I was lucky enough to find because it was about luck, right? And this guy, like something that we also spoke briefly before the show look like this? It wasn’t planned. It was it was a good accident. And it so I don’t feel comfortable. Like just being the parent that leaves their kids success, his gets access to lock, right doesn’t, who would be like, you know, go for it, like, try it out. And it’s, it’s difficult to find what one can do to promote them finding this one thing that they’re very passionate about? Are you familiar with the concept of IKI? Guy? Have you ever heard that? No, no. So and I might be kind of butchering the concept. But anyway, there is this concept called epi that

Jason Baum 29:49
I don’t know what it is. So you could butcher it and I won’t.

Leonardo Murillo 29:52
I don’t know what is it? 10 million people hearing? Yeah,

Jason Baum 29:55
I think we were we had a Super Bowl size audience for this.

Leonardo Murillo 29:59
Alright, so If anybody knows iki guy better, please put it in the comments and talk back to us. But there’s actually a book that I bought having read it. Not because I’m an avid reader, but that’s a different story. iki guy says that you need to find bad. Which is. So there’s that which are passionate about that which the world needs. And that which makes money. And the realization of your life is going to be in the center, where those three things collide, you have to find that what you’re passionate about it, you can make money, and the world needs it. How do you help your kids find that, right? When the world changes so rapidly? And what we’re talking about, right? Like maybe it’s all about exploration, you got to let them try in and out whatever they feel like. But then there’s the, then there’s the concept of, first of all, our initial response to most things that are painful is to fight, not fight. So there is kind of resistance. And persistence, is something that we I guess, are born with some degree of resistance, but it’s something that you train over time, right? It’s something that you, at least that’s comedy might take, you build up through conscious effort, your ability to persist in hardship. You learn that some, you know, like, no, no kid is just gonna expose themselves to painful things and keep at it, because they want to become persistent, they won’t do it. So how do you identify? How much exploration to provide? How do you identify when what they have chosen no longer to do is because it’s not their achy guy, it’s not their passion? Or it’s, is it that they’re abandoning it because they experience some pain? And now it’s the opportunity to teach them to persist? I don’t I don’t have any answer to that. Jason, I just know that those are very, those, those are very challenging problems. And those three kids neither came with a manual. I, I’ve Googled everything, and nothing has helped.

Jason Baum 32:42
I do a lot of reading and I that there’s the one person who I follow up quite a bit. My wife, you know, turned me on to her as Janet lensbury. And she’s really great with various teaching methods, and she has a site I think it’s like raising children who want to come home, which is a great concept, because that’s something that we always talk about is that you know, at the end of the day, all you care about or all you should care about is that they’re happy, healthy, and you don’t blame you for screwing them up. I think that’s like all parents like in the back of their head. You’re like God, God, I hope I don’t screw this one up. And I think that that resonated with us. But I think there are so many ways you can go with that. Because there’s the part of me that’s thinking, as you’re saying, it’s like, well, I don’t want to be the one to push my kid to do something that that they end up hating, you know, just because I want them to push. But then at the same time I it is that the blocks fell down, build them back up concept where you know that we all teach them. It’s like, you can be frustrated, you can feel your feelings but at the end of the day, but then regroup and then try it again. Right? Because otherwise how are we ever going to succeed in life? If you don’t have those basic, you know, that that fundamental learn is that you need to be persons button, persistent, but that’s hard. That’s something I still even today. I think we all struggle with that we

Leonardo Murillo 34:01
all struggle, and you know what I was thinking like, I always think about two scenarios in my life. What is I don’t think there’s ever been a programming language that I haven’t started writing that I’m like, What is this terrible thing? Who came up with this stupid nonsense, right? Like every when I learned Python, I’m like, PABs it’s like, identifying, defining blocks that what the hell is it entation got to do with the language right? Now. I love Python. Whenever I started learning TypeScript, I’m like, how the hell are you applying classes and object-oriented concepts to a functional language? It’s unheard of right now. I really liked TypeScript. Everything that I explored new there’s always usually some opinion that as I dig deeper I realize its value. And I don’t remember who said this. But somebody said that everything is interesting and everything is amazing. As long as you go deep enough, right at the surface, things tend to be boring things tend to be, you know, unfamiliar. But the bigger you deep, the more value and the more discovery and the more the more or you find,

Jason Baum 35:24
right, there’s the level of appreciation, right? For as you learn something more and more, you appreciate it more.

Leonardo Murillo 35:30
Exactly. So what how do you keep that balance? Right? Like, I want to try kung fu Daddy, I want to play guitar, I want to play drums a month into it. I don’t no longer want to play drums, I want to play. I don’t know, a saxophone. Have you like, where is that line? Like? What? When do you say yes? And when do you say no, it’s very difficult. Yeah, it’s tough. You know. And for example, I think about when I learned to drive, when I learned to drive like relatively old age, I was like 18 or 19 years old when I learned to drive because my, my parents didn’t have a car. And I actually learned to drive when I was able to buy myself my first car. And the first few weeks were just awful. Like, I would have taken the bus any time because it was just this uncomfortable feeling of having to drive this battle Park. I was like, No way, man, I’m paying the bus.

Jason Baum 36:24
Come up here to Queens and try to park.

Leonardo Murillo 36:28
I gotta imagine what it is for you guys. So had I, if I had been a kid, I would have said no, you want, I don’t want a car, I want to keep taking the bus. It feels fun. It’s comfortable. I laugh with my buddies in the bus. But that whatever, if I made the choice that would have very much hindered a lot of possibility in my life. Right? So I think it’s very tricky. Not to mention the fact that the world is changing so fast that I don’t even know what we’re preparing our kids for. Right? Like the world that they’re going into is going to be dramatically different to anything you and I maybe can even think about. Right. So it’s, you know what, I think we’ve gotten to the bottom of it, you know, the one thing that you can do love them. And

Jason Baum 37:15
that’s and push them to space exploration. I think that’s gonna be that’s, that’s the next one. Yeah. All right. I mean, we could talk about this all day, maybe we should have another podcast just on this.

Leonardo Murillo 37:30
We got this all-new series of DevOps, the

Jason Baum 37:33
kids of the air I love. I love that parenting for DevOps, parenting with a DevOps mind. Alright, so let’s we got deep there, let’s, let’s bring it back to light. So to kind of wrap things up, what makes you excited about DevOps right now? What do you see things going and what gets you excited for the future?

Leonardo Murillo 37:56
I think just technology gets me excited for the future. I think this is a phenomenal time to be in dentistry, I think it’s a phenomenal time of accelerated change. And what gets me excited is the uncertainty of the future. Like when we were talking about right, we don’t know what the future is gonna be like for our kids. I love the fact that we’re at this dawn of the space age again, I think that’s phenomenal. I think it’s phenomenal that we’re at this dawn of AI. Age, maybe who knows, and who

Jason Baum 38:28
knows, scary if you’re,

Leonardo Murillo 38:30
I’m reading this book, I forget the name. I don’t have it nearby about oh, it’s called superintelligence. So for anybody that’s interested in kind of, like, that type of interesting. They are interesting out-of-the-ordinary thinking. It’s called superintelligence paths, dangers and strategies by Nick Bostrom. That’s, that’s one one of my current active rates, about halfway through. Very interesting. And we don’t know what it’s gonna be like, you know, and so that that excites me. That uncertainty of the breadth of possibility that I see as at the brink of

Jason Baum 39:19
no I, you know, I just think Skynet with AI and I should probably not, but that’s where my mind goes. And it scares me sometimes.

Leonardo Murillo 39:28
It could be scary. It could be like, I have no idea what it’s gonna be like, read that book, man. You’re gonna freak you out. And it’s gonna keep like, it’s both gonna freak you out. And it’s gonna give you kind of like, positive outlook.

Jason Baum 39:41
You just can’t build a robot that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, please. All right, well, hey, Leo. This has been awesome. Um, I appreciate you getting you know really human getting deep with us sharing. You’re probably hearing my child screaming right now. So there you

Leonardo Murillo 39:59
go. It’s a daughter. Yes.

Jason Baum 40:02
Yeah. Yeah, my girl. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. And good luck with your three. And. And yeah, we’ll catch up again. Now I feel like I have a friend in Costa Rica. So you really appreciate it. And if you want

Leonardo Murillo 40:15
the year-round 80 degrees, it’s always happening, man. You’re invited.

Jason Baum 40:21
Yes, please.

Leonardo Murillo 40:23
All right. Thank you, Jason. And thank you so much. Yeah, a lot of fun. And, and thanks, everybody for listening.

Jason Baum 40:30
Appreciate it. Yeah. And so this is the time of the podcast where I’m going to beg you to ask questions because I really am. I want to hear from our listeners, I want to hear what you have to think what you have to say. Rather and, you know, ask questions about the show, ask questions about our guests. We’ll try and get them back on or we’ll try and get them to answer a few of your questions. So if you want to dive deeper into what Leah was talking about, please go ahead and ask us. And again, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps Podcast. I’m going to end this the same as I always do, encouraging you to become a premium member of DevOps Institute to get access to even more great resources just like this one. And until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human, live long, and prosper.

Narrator 41:18
Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps podcast. Don’t forget to join our global community to get access to even more great resources like this. Until next time, remember, you are part of something bigger than yourself. You belong

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