On this episode of the Humans of DevOps, Jason Baum is joined by Ramon Medrano Llamas [@rmedranollamas], Site Reliability Engineer at Google. We find out how Ramon ended up at Google and more. Ramon comes from a town in the north of Spain and has moved no less than 13 times. He’s been in Switzerland for 11 years and is becoming a citizen. He carries a small k8s cluster in his camper van. He’s had multiple roles at Google from Field Tech, intern, IC, TL, Manager, etc.
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The lightly edited transcript can be found below.
You’re listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills, knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SKIL framework.
Jason Baum 00:17
Hey, everyone, it’s Jason Baum, Director of membership at DevOps Institute. And this is the Humans of DevOps podcast. So I am so excited today to be chatting with Ramon Medrano Llamas, site reliability engineer at Google in Zurich. He’s leading the identity team there and responsible for authentication and identity management services that Google concentrates on reliability aspects of new Google products and new features of existing products, and ensuring that they meet the high bar of Google service. And Google did not provide me with that. I was able to come up with that all by myself. Ramon, thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 01:02
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Jason Baum 01:07
I want a side job, just introducing people. That’s all I’m gonna just follow you around in rooms and announce you that way. Kind of like on the crown. So Ramon, thank you so much for being on. I’m really excited to talk to you, obviously, about your experience over at Google and your career, but also today, you know, we want to get to know you remotely individual and kind of what led you to where you’re at in your career. So if you’re ready, let’s get human. It’s alright, so remote. Tell us a little bit about your backstory, your career history, how did you end up where you are today at Google?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 01:50
So if we do it, like, backwards, I, I been at Google for seven and a half years. But I have been Google on the same team for all this time, which is not many people do that. So I started as an intern, in 2011, I was doing it was a fill tech field technician it was called is like like some sort of SRE like work because you are going to be fixing on improving the laptops and workstations and all the computers that are in the office, right? So it’s for the developers and the engineers, and so on. So I remember that time we were working with Wi-Fi and all the certificates you have to put together to install correctly in your Mac, iOS, or Linux or whatever to make it work. Right. Then I joined at nicely, the identity team. And we were working at the time in we had only I remember, we had only three services when I joined. Right, we had the front end or back end, and I started serving that that was right. And we were working on capacity planning and so on because the thing was working was growing very fast at the time, right? Then I became the TL of the team, right? In I don’t know when but after some point, and now I’m the manager of all these teams, right. And then if we go back, this is in 35. Prior to that, I was in Geneva, I worked in, in the in the Physics Lab, where we had the accelerator there, which is very nice place to be I remember that I was working in one of the detectors in Atlas. And it’s very nice because my work I was doing infrastructure for computers, but I would go down to the detector every other day. Right. And I was so there is a detector, which is a ring-like accelerator with a ring of like 40 Something kilometers, right. And they are the detectors I saw. But there is a small data center there, and the meters and the under the surface, right. And you could bike through the tunnel, which is pretty cool. And prior to that, that was my first job dry. I was doing University in Spain in Oviedo small town in the north in the contemporary sea. So it’s not the sunny part of Spain. It rains quite a lot but it has goodwill. And there I studied a degree like a bachelor’s and a Master’s there it was focusing systems.
Jason Baum 04:31
So you always knew that this was the career path for you. You kind of came out it sounds like and you pretty much went straight for it and then and then really you’ve been at Google for quite a long time. So back before you went to university and everything while you were in Spain because I don’t know if we cover I know you went to university in Spain but you’re from Spain you don’t sound like it from Zurich. How are you? How long have you been in Zurich
Ramón Medrano Llamas 04:59
seven interleague, teens. 2013, so like close to eight years, but in Switzerland, this is our 11th. Year.
Jason Baum 05:08
Okay? Does everyone get a watch when you get to Google? Is that like, you get a nice Zurich? No, no, no, no,
Ramón Medrano Llamas 05:15
we get like a hat. Like funny, like, propeller thing that I used only once. Like my gate habitat now.
Jason Baum 05:23
Yeah, there you go. I got a Google water bottle. I guess I could be on the team. So so before you get to university, you know, growing up as a child, were you into computers? How did that fascination happen?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 05:40
So I got my first computer my uncle gave me it was HP Bactria with the 386 and four megabytes of RAM. Right. And that was when we started playing with and all the time, right at the beginning was weight games and all that stuff. And then you start doing like, you can program this thing where I mean, like, you can do like, fun stuff, right? With Pascal, and all that all that all the things, right? And then it was, I was a computer, like a hobby for a long time since this was in 1995. So since like, I was like, nine years old, right? And I didn’t know that. At the time that I was gonna be working with computers, like professionally, probably, for me, it was a hobby. Like, I was very nice to play games, programs, and stuff, right? But I was more into, like math or physics. When I was in there at school then that actually. Technology, we did not have a technology core. So like in my school. There were other schools at the time that they would have already programming lessons, right, which was pretty advanced for the time, I
Jason Baum 06:55
was gonna say that’s pretty early. Like we had Oregon Trail in my school, I think it was and we had like for Max, the old school Apple, you know, the little turtle?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 07:08
Yeah, but we didn’t have that. Right. So I was making the call in when I was about to start in university in 2004. Right. And he was like, Why do I do like classic engineering? Like, I don’t know, industrial engineering that was pretty popular in our in order to write or do computers, right? I was there was this belief at the time. That was like, if you do computer engineering, that’s too easy, right? Because you have to do light-hearted stuff. That is real engineering. And I chose computers just because he was like, I thought he was going to be more. I don’t know. Everyone was going to use a computer. That was the thing at the time. Right?
Jason Baum 07:50
What’s real engineering, as opposed to what’s the harder engineer? Is that like building spaceships like what is the harder engineering?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 07:57
I don’t know these people is they do like, build machines, right? Yeah. And they do boats and race cars and all that stuff. So that’s like actual tangible engineering that you can get? Sure, I think that you can touch at the end of the process. In computer, what we do is like, well, you have the programs. Well, that was their understanding at the time, I think that has changed quite a lot in cetera. And I think was really good goal was just to be quite honest. I think our industry is really nice. It’s growing pretty fast. And nice. I like it very much. I don’t think I would like make machines.
Jason Baum 08:37
Yeah, well, I mean, I often look back and I’m like, Man, I really wish that we knew about computer programming in the way that it is now as like profession, because like you said, I don’t think people really looked at it as much of a profession. And we’re about the same age roughly. And I don’t think that people really looked at coding the way they do now as like a real future profession. It was certainly on the edge, but it wasn’t to the extent that it is now. And I look at it for someone like my daughter, and I’m like, oh, man, we are so giving her computer coding lessons. And I know there’s gonna be something else obviously, by the time she hits the workforce, but I feel like everybody needs to have kind of a, an understanding of it these days.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 09:21
Yeah, I agree with that. So in my time, we didn’t, so I joined one of the first GSO of like actually Computing Engineering. Before that was math he was on a specialization of the math grade. It was like do algorithms right?
Jason Baum 09:37
Okay. And did you ever have any interest what I’m finding is on each one of these podcasts is a degree of learning about people. You know, either sometimes people take an interest in psychology often, and why people do what they do or some type of philosophy even and apply it towards The Computer Science and that’s where kind of DevOps lives in this nice little cushion of the meeting of human mind and computer mind. And I don’t know if that was ever an interest for you if that’s something that you also were interested in.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 10:15
So not at the beginning, right? These guys have developed like, recently, recently, right at the beginning, he was all like, well, there are computers, and I do program them. And they do what I tell him to do, right. And that was the I chose the system. So we had to like patch, there was one for management and more like, Would you comment of like project management or the management and, like, the business side of things, right. And I went through the other there was appeal systems and stuff. So I never got into the psychology of things until I was put in the role of actually getting for a team. And that’s when I discovered that that was actually a useful thing to do.
Jason Baum 11:02
Yeah, and I would imagine that, you know, it’s since it’s is a relatively newer field, DevOps with the terminology anyway, DevOps, that maybe I’m kind of guessing here, and I know nothing about, like, I am not a technical person in any way. But as a consumer of everything that is produced by these companies, and especially of Google, you know, if I say, OK, Google, it’s gonna tell me, you know, I can pretty much do anything I want, I can turn on a light, I can close a door, I can lock a door, I could turn on my thermostat, I could play music, which is pretty crazy. So the expectations now of the end user are probably so unbelievably high, it must tax you guys behind the scenes as to what’s next? And B? How do we hold it all together?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 11:51
Yeah, so I think the speculations are high. So they have always been high for example, for reliability, right. And we I always say that the biggest success we have had in reliability is like when your internet connection goes down. The first thing you do is ping google.com. Right. And then that means that people trust the infrastructure to be working right. But now, it’s not only a consumer problem, right? It’s not that the consumers are expecting the OK, Google enabled machine to work is like if you think about the cloud, right? There are banks running their infrastructure in a cloud platform. There are hospitals running there. I don’t know what infrastructure they have into cloud platforms. There are even the I don’t know, cars, these days, they have an automotive cloud and all that stuff. Right? So it’s not that this high is it now is in just about everything that moves.
Jason Baum 12:42
Yeah, the cloud has kind of like become the new infrastructure of the world, right? It’s kind of like when you’re laying out roads for cars, or what we’re going to be doing for electric vehicles. Putting in the charging stations, I feel like that’s kind of like what’s happening behind the scenes with the cloud. It’s kind of just become these little stations throughout the world. And I am so dumbing this down? Because that’s my level of understanding. But I would imagine for Google, you guys must have one of the largest infrastructures for that on the planet.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 13:16
So for cloud itself, I don’t know how it compares, because I don’t work directly there. But I think the whole Google Network concern is if not one of the biggest, right? Because if you think about the products, and everything that is running in there is just humongous like when I moved from Tallinn to Google, right, suddenly is pretty big, because you had the accelerator of these producing like shitloads of data, right? And you have a data center just in the detector. But then there are these like tiers of them, right? There is one in Geneva, then there is distributed infrastructure around the world trying to process all that data, rather than the, I thought that was huge, right? And it’s big, right? But then when you enter into the actual cloud of Google or AWS, or all these big companies, that’s a completely different scale is just astounding.
Jason Baum 14:08
So let’s back up to you. Let’s talk more about you. You know, coming into it you obviously said like, this is something you knew and started you wanted to do, you know, really know what it was yet. But then as soon as computers start to evolve, and you understood more, you knew this was the path for yourself. Were there any roadblocks, was there any time in your life during this process that you’re like, I don’t know if this is for me.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 14:33
At the beginning of university, it was not easy, right? Because you were dropped into like, I didn’t have any computing background, besides my hobby, right? When I dropped into the, into the, into the university, right? And the first thing you get is like algebra and calculus, and is like, is this I mean, this is hard, but this is going to be useful for anything. Are these Yes. filter that they have to just take people out right? And the other one is programming, like programming in a non-hobby way is completely different than when you just have your Raspberry Pi and you want to pull out something, right? Actually no in algorithms and we have to use them and debugging bigger problem programs, right? That’s not, that’s not easy to learn. And that was, I mean, they steep the learning curve was really steep at the beginning.
Jason Baum 15:27
Yeah, algebra and calculus you just said like, those are like bad words to me. Like I’m, I’m a Communications major in English. You know, I know. Thank you. Math is my right you have the two brains. I’m definitely not a math person. So I’d imagine for anybody though, once you start getting into complex problem solving because that’s really all it is, right? At the end of the day, we’re talking complex problem-solving. I can imagine it could be overwhelming. So So you got past it was there? Did you have a mentor in the industry? How did you kind of take that next step?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 16:02
So it was the first year we have a couple of professors that were in there, they were close to them. So we have a small it was a small school, right? So the professor could know you to the student try. And they helped me, like learning to program and doing extra exercises, and so on to actually, like, get these moments that everything clicks. And you say, like, I know how this works now, right? Which I’m super thankful for. I think they’re my personal heroes, these people. And, and, and then after that, it was much in I would not want to say easier, but it was much more interesting for me at the time because I got into the system spat so we go like operating systems, classes and so on. And then is when I discovered and MSE CMC, I’m sorry, I’m not, I’m not going to do machine learning. I’m going to do operating systems. This is what is for me. And he was very nice because you just pulled from that thread. And there is quite a lot of things to learn, right?
Jason Baum 17:03
Yeah. So, so now you’re in the industry. You’ve been at Google for a long time, what is it about Google that you like?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 17:13
So a few things. So I think then, at the beginning, would you join? Do you like all the things that you like, after you or a few years there. So in the beginning, it was like, how easy, this is just a mongos, like, everything is so fancy, everything works perfect, right? And then over the years, one thing that I think is the best part of working at Google is the amount of autonomy, you have to do whatever you want to do, right? And I’m not meaning as you have the freedom to be tinkering with things that are not useful for business, I’m not meaning that if you are an Icee, and want to become a manager, there is a path for you. And they support for you to grow into that. If you want to change from SRE to working research, right? There is a path for you. Right? So they really, they really want you to grow and to actually pursue what you want. Right? And if you align that with the company intelligence, right, I think it is, it just works nicely. Yeah,
Jason Baum 18:15
I think a lot of companies are probably learning that right now, with retention of talent, because like you said, at the end of the day, what everybody wants is for themselves to grow. And that’s the best thing for the company is for you to grow, right. And we keep hearing that term upskilling. Obviously, that’s something we do through DevOps Institute, and we have certifications and all that. And we obviously encourage the companies to get their employees to upskill. Because with today’s workforce being virtual for, you know, the past 13 months, you can come in and work anywhere, it doesn’t matter where you are in the world, and you can be plugged in, and you can work, we’ve proved that that’s been proven. So I would imagine it’s getting more competitive out there. So it makes sense for a company like Google, we’ve heard about Apple just being ahead of the game with their talent and trying to retain their talent.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 19:08
Yeah, and he’s keeping innovation, right? Because then if you look at how integrations with Google has done is people that are thinking out of the expected box that they have. So if I were to be so if we only hire like DevOps people for SRE, right? You will get a very simple, very single kind of mindset, right? But if we start hiding, like as a research scientist, right, and think for how do we run production as well, and then you say, do good be able to apply new things that you would never do before? Right? And that actually changes the game from time to time?
Jason Baum 19:44
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, we’re not, we don’t all have to be pigeonholed into one thing. You know, we’re all human and probably bring different traits to the game and the good company recognizes what traits you bring and can apply them or even ask To think about it and apply them. So we briefly talked about pandemic, actually, before we talk about pandemic. I want to get into your background as far as where you’ve been living. I know we talked about Switzerland. And I prior to that, did you move around much? You said you’re from this small town in the north of Spain? What’s What was that a culture shock when you went to Switzerland? I would imagine.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 20:28
It is quite different. Yes. So in, for example, one thing that I was realizing is that in Switzerland, they speak quietly. Not as loud as in Spain. So that was the first thing like just landing in the airport is always
Jason Baum 20:43
learning how did they speak in Switzerland?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 20:46
Not whispering, but they is not as noisy. Like for example, the bass or whatever place it is full of people is not as noisy as in Spain, it may sound like a stupid thing to realize. But that’s the first thing I got when I landed there is like things are quiet.
Jason Baum 21:00
Oh, man, I’m from Manhattan, we scream
Ramón Medrano Llamas 21:04
which is good or bad. Like, like, all the things besides the language there is. The timing like this character is slightly different, dry. But one thing that is, I think is nice is how predictable things are here. Right? So for example, you know that if someone commits to do something is going to happen to try. And I think that makes things actually, especially for work right? Makes things quite easier.
Jason Baum 21:36
And how about the weather? I spent a month in Spain, beautiful, beautiful weather, mostly in central South Spain, mostly Central and the coast. But how’s the weather different spin in Switzerland?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 21:51
So it’s Continental. So the summers are not that hard. We have a few like, one-two weeks that it’s really hard. What is that about it? And then the spring? I do not like it because I’m allottee. Like I have like these allergies to plants and so on. Right. So here there is really it rains in spring. So you are screwed in spring, right? But you have a winter, right? So this is now on we’re like an hour from the Alps. Right? And that’s very nice. Because you just take the train and in the slopes in like an hour, an hour and a half. It’s beautiful.
Jason Baum 22:24
Yeah, so So are you more so you like the colder weather then?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 22:28
Yeah, yeah, I was a summer person. But after moving here, I definitely prefer the winter.
Jason Baum 22:34
I can see if you’ve never really experienced many winters, you would like it. Give it a few years. So we’ll see. We’ll see. Well, do you ski then?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 22:43
I don’t know. Well, yes, I tried skiing and there are too many moving parts in there. So yeah, I just can’t do it.
Jason Baum 22:48
Hard to stay up. Yeah, well, that’s good. So So back to the pandemic. Okay, going from one to the other. So, you know, we mentioned you know, talent and retaining talent, how has Google been working through the pandemic? You know, what do you see that’s changed that maybe you’ll keep doing here and here in the States it’s getting better you know, there’s hope on the horizon. I have no idea I know the European Union is a little bit behind except for the UK but how is it going over there with the pandemic? And is there hope on the horizon?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 23:26
Yeah, so there is like I think Europe goes like around three weeks behind in the schedule of delivering the vaccine so it’s the thing is ramping up quite exponentially nice now so I hope that by the end of summer we will be like or not back to complete normal betta Universitaire you know, that that ship that we are now right so I think the pandemic has been so I can tell you for me and my team try for the whole company I think they the only thing I can tell you is my opinion that I think they have done it well in a few things. Like for example, the closer of a sadly to like the safe and sound rights I think inside that was those were good culture now for returning to the office they are taking like the measures that they need and turn right for me and my team. So one thing that the pandemic has changed so the beginning it was a mess, right the first three weeks for us. We were a team that was designed to be together in a giant that all the culture and the processes and everything was around like we are super expected to be there. The first day so the first week it was okay because now okay, we are going for no harm but this is going to be like a week or two
Jason Baum 24:43
two weeks to flatten the curve.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 24:46
Yes, and then there we are 15 months after that. So we did like some kind of incident management side coordination of saying okay, we are all going to be like for a few weeks at home right? We need to without basic stuff like access to production, like, can we debug a service? If we are paged from home? Like, do we have what we need? We came up with things that weren’t silly at the time. But they improve to be useful. That was like, We, half of my team had the same ISP at home, right? So an outage of these ISP would have not allowed the team to operate and things like that, right? That was in the first week. Then there was a time from week two to like, a couple of months. That it was, it was a complete mess, at least personally, for me, because I have the kids, they close the schools, it was there, my wife had to work from home, too. So two kids, and two people trying to work from home, just didn’t work out. But then we managed to get together nice. So Google is very flexible with their schedule of working. So I work in there, like a New York kind of style. So I started working after lunch, and work until like nine or 10 pm, which is nice because my wife works in the other half of the day. And for me is nice, because I can meet with California and have more time to have meetings with them. So that’s working out pretty well right now. I think it’s, it definitely has improved quite a lot our like wellbeing for the team. So I think we are still navigating the transition from being the nonremote team to being a remote team. Right? And it’s, you can read articles on the internet, and so on, how do you do it? And so on. But until you have to do it, you don’t know how difficult that is? It’s a completely different paradigm.
Jason Baum 26:39
Yeah, and I think that now, that’s been so long, we’re definitely getting more used to it getting better at it just in time to possibly go back. So then I think the next question is, what is that future? Is it going to be hybrid? Is it going to because I think people got really used to working from home, they got good at working from home production is up and a lot of places. You know, I’m someone who works better from home? I never thought I would be but I am. You know, what happens next?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 27:08
So I don’t know. So I think the company is still putting together the plans for the future of work as they, as they call it. Right. And I think so, one thing that we have realized is that things are not going to be as they used to be. So we are not going to be back to December 2019. Because of different reasons, I think, as you say, remote work has proven to be something that works. Right. So I think, for example, some people actually work better from home than in an office. Right. And I think we this is my opinion, I think we should respect that because this is talent that you can retain, and they can work in, in in a way. Right? A will their feedback. I think this will be back I think there is at least for us, we are a team that used to be working in the office, right? So I think in some way or another will, will be there will be a hybrid remote or not that I don’t know.
Jason Baum 28:09
I don’t think anyone knows yet. But it seems like the majority of people want some type of hybrid that whenever I’ve seen the polls come out, it’s like 70% or 60%, one hybrid. So I think that we’re probably on the way there who knows what everyone’s gonna do. But it just, it just seems to make sense. And plus, I think right now everyone’s just itching to be somewhere. They want to be around people. They want a bit of their normalcy, but maybe taking it to the nth degree just because we’ve all been, you know, kind of hibernating for the past 13 months or so. So it’ll be interesting to see when we get back to the quote-unquote, normal. Alright, so moving on from the pandemic. Now I just, this is the part of the podcast where we can go anywhere we want with learning about you. And sometimes I take it to music, sometimes I take it to art or books or whatever you’re up to. But before I ask about that, I’m going to put you on the spot kind of what’s one unique thing about you that nobody knows?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 29:16
I don’t know. I do fencing. Now many people know that. So when we moved to Switzerland, my wife has been doing fencing since she was a kid. So you should try it out. Right? And he’s like, Okay, I’m not a sports kind of person. And so he’s like, Okay, I’ll try it out. It was pretty nice. Like, he was really, really cool. So will we do it since then?
Jason Baum 29:41
So do you fence your wife? Yeah. That can’t be healthy. So when you win is that like cool? Or?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 29:50
It’s cool? wins all the time. So okay, there you go.
Jason Baum 29:54
That sounds like a better dynamic I would think longevity we
Ramón Medrano Llamas 29:58
might experience Yeah, like has been fencing for a really long time. And I can go in from time to time that is not frequent. But is it is a very nice spot. We only do it we don’t do it at home, right? Because you need to have like space to do it. But what is nice, like I really enjoy it and not many people know that I do that actually.
Jason Baum 30:21
Did you so you haven’t fenced before but your wife you said had been fencing since what? Like since high school or?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 30:27
Yeah, earlier like she was like when she started like 10 years old or something? Maybe?
Jason Baum 30:33
Yeah, that’s cool. I think I was with like a wooden sword, but I wouldn’t call it fencing. It was more just like the kind of like, hitting.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 30:44
I thought that at the beginning is like, Okay, you hit the other end, right? Yeah, it’s much more subtle than that. Sure. And is for fencing like we like this small pay is in French so it’s like as much word like as in like, a theme Tottori is it’s more the speed of your arm than any strength. And in the beginning, you failed miserably.
Jason Baum 31:12
Or you have to imagine have really good hand coordination. So that’s where I think I would fail. I don’t think I would block anything. Well, that’s cool. So um, alright, so during the pandemic, I know for myself and I’ve talked about this on the podcast before I went to music has always been my backbone. It’s always been my thing that’s kept me sane. What’s the thing that’s been keeping you sane throughout the pandemic other than fencing?
Ramón Medrano Llamas 31:40
So we got one thing that was interesting for us like for traveling, we used to travel well, not quite a lot, but a few times a year and with the kids is in the back with the pandemic measures it’s impossible to get into a plane or into a train right. So we got a caravan one of these California from Busan, right? And that’s a nice way to travel with kids. It’s really nice because we don’t have a schedule so there is no you need to take the train to our food right? So we added to the man we move around, right we can cross the border, but this is there is still enough Switzerland to go through. And that has helped a lot especially when the kids were in the summer holidays. Now there was no school or whatever so I think we can just take it and spend like sleeping the thing like has been the weekend again back and that has been has been very nice because the first lockdown in April was really horrible.
Jason Baum 32:35
Yeah, I would imagine that RV sales must have been really good this past year because I’ve heard so many people talking about doing the same type of thing we were talking about actually about doing some type of RV trip and it’s not the kind of vacation we would have normally done before. We’re definitely like you said we hop on a plane we go somewhere. So that’s yeah, I would imagine sales must be really high for RVs right now.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 33:00
Yeah, like the so when contacting the dealership like we want these one new and he’s like yeah, so we say but it is much sorry you will have by November is a one where if you’re doing with that, how many manufacturers your idea? It’s like demand was really high. So we got that one was secondhand. It was the best deal we can make because we enjoy your need for the whole summer.
Jason Baum 33:21
Awesome. Well, I hope you’ve enjoyed this summer. So remote. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, it was really great getting to know you.
Ramón Medrano Llamas 33:31
Thank you for having me. It’s a very nice conversation.
Jason Baum 33:34
And thank you for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps Podcast. I’m going to end this podcast the same as I always do encourage you to become a premium member of the DevOps Institute. Get access to even more great resources just like this one. And until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human, live long and prosper.
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